From NYC Indymedia: At least 18 grandmothers opposed to the war in Iraq were arrested today at the Times Square Armed Forces Recruiting Station. The women were attempting to enlist at the station but found the door locked. Supporters gathered around the station while those trying to enlist sat down in front of the door and were soon arrested. Joan Wile, founder of the group “Grandmothers Against the War,” and one of those arrested, said via a statement; “people are dying in this awful war every day. If someone has to die, I would rather it be somebody like me – who has had the opportunity to live a long life – instead of some young person.” Click here for more photos by Fred Askew from the protest.
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CounterRecruiter.net 
October 18, 2005 at 11:49 pm |
Fact is that they broke the law. They did not have the RIGHT to block the doors to the recruiting office. They did not have the RIGHT to loiter on the sidewalk. If they wanted to assmeble then they should have gotten a permit to do so. They broke the law and were rightly punished for doing so. Grandmothers or not. Just because they’re old doesn’t mean they’re exempt from the law. If a 90-year-old grandmother murdered somebody are we supposed to feel sorry for them when they get arrested for that? I would hope not. As a matter of fact, if that grandmother killed a child I’m sure most people would be saying, “I hope that evil b*itch gets the chair!”
-Recruiter
October 19, 2005 at 9:45 am |
Recruiter,
I agree with you 110%! As a native New Yorker that’s been to a few “protests”, I can tell you that the notion that these women are “kindly old grandmas” is bullshit.
These women are lifelong left-wing activists and many of the older ones (like the 90 year old) advocated socialist/communist causes in the 1930s.
I’m glad you don’t buy into the “raging grannies” propaganda. I saw these vixens at the Sept. 24th march in DC and they were crass, obnoxious and vulgar – something I haven’t seen in too many “grannies” in my neighborhood or in my grandmothers nursing home.
Glad to have your “six” (on this issue at least).
October 19, 2005 at 2:28 pm |
IRR Soldier,
On second thought….. How heartless are we in today’s society when we’re arresting 90-year-old grandmothers?!
Just kidding.
I’m glad that we can find some things to share common ground on. Maybe there’s hope that our country can re-unite after all….
-Recruiter
October 21, 2005 at 11:33 pm |
Yeah Im sure these 90 yr olds are a real threat to go out and murder someone. Fine they broke the law but you really take it to an extreme by trying to make that kind of comparison. Besides in a few more months your likely to be able to recruit from this pool of highly motivated americans. You might want to add their contact info to your database of High Schoolers and hurricane victims.
October 23, 2005 at 1:56 pm |
Lakers,
Are you angry that the United States government is trying to help hurricane victims by offering them jobs? So what you are telling us is, “How dare the United States government offer jobs to hurricane victims. Doesn’t the United States government know that these people don’t want our pitty or simpathy.” Is that what you are trying to say? Should we just let the hurricane victims rot inside the Houston Astrodome? If not the United States government, who should offer jobs? McDonald’s? Burger King? I am sure that if these victims have skills that are in high demand, that they can probably get a job that needs those skills. But what of the unskilled? Who should train them? The City of Houston? Should the taxpayers of the City of Houston and the State of Texas absorb all the cost to train the (unskilled) hurricane victims. Obviously you think that the military shouldn’t offer jobs to the hurricane victims. Why?
October 24, 2005 at 5:33 am |
lakers,
Are you saying that a 90-year-old woman is incapable of commiting murder? Old or not, they are certinly able to commit murder. I do not find my comments “extreme”. The law is the law. If you break the law, regardless of age, you’re subject the the punishment given by the courts. I did not say that old women are a “threat” to go out and murder somebody. They are not a “threat” for murder just as much as they are not a “threat” for loitering at a Army Recruiting Station.
I find your comment about them not being a “threat” for murder. With that comment you imply that there is a group of people who ARE a threat to commit murder. Who exactly is this group of people? Younger black males? Middle-aged white men? Mid 20 to late 30-year-old middle eastern men dressing in a “western” style of dress and not appearing to be devout muslims? Who do you suggest is this group of people? Just courious…..
The military will never be able to “recruit” old grandmas since there is a madatory retirement age of 62. There are extentions available but only given by the President (usually reserved for Generals, but not always so – CSGMs and the CSGM of the Army are other examples). I don’t have to worry about trying to find old ladies to recruit. Thanks for the good chuckle though…..
You act as though recruiting High Schoolers is a bad thing. Never-mind the fact that this has been in practice in our country for over 40 years…… maybe we should go back to the way things used to be BEFORE the all volunteer Army. During the Revolutionary War and Civil War teenagers as young as 12 could join the military. They were usually Drummers or Flag Barers(sp?) but there are many documented cases of younger teenagers picking up arms and fighting. But then again the Drummers and the “Flaggers” were right on the front lines so what does it matter if they were holding a gun or not…. they were still killed in combat. In Palistine Hammas recruits boys as young as 10 to strap a bomb on their chest and walk onto a school bus and blow them selves up just to kill Jews. Should we go with these recruiting tactics? Fact of the matter is that Seniors in High School are much more intelligent than you give them credit for. These kids are probably more informed than you are (probably because you refuse to fully explore every aspect of the War on Terror – you just think ALL war is bad and should never happen. While war is a bad thing, it is a necessary evil. I could go into MUCH great detail of why the War on Terror, which includes Operation Iraqi Freedom, but I’m sure you’ve read most of my posts that explain that and ignored them as “lies” even though they’re all filled with FACTS – something your kind seems to convienently ignore). Besides, if a High Schooler is 17-years-old they are not able to enlist without parent concent. So I suppose their parents are not smart enough to make that decision either are they?
As for the Hurricane victims…. please see SGT Davis’ post.
SGT Davis,
Thanks for watching my 6. Been out of town for a while – MEPS trips and some other stuff…..you know…
October 27, 2005 at 6:14 am |
Hey babe, lock em all up. Everyone is dangerous.
October 29, 2005 at 3:10 am |
Wow, you sickos remind me of the Enron tapes…. (seriously!)
—-
“All the money you guys stole from those poor grandmothers in California?”
“Yeah, grandma Millie, man”
“Yeah, Grandma Millie, man. But she’s the one who couldn’t figure out how to fuckin’ vote on the butterfly ballot.”
“Yeah, now she wants her fuckin’ money back for all the power you’ve charged right up, jammed right up her ass for fuckin’ $250 a megawatt hour.”
October 29, 2005 at 8:31 am |
My mistake. Kill em all. Let GOD sort ’em out.
October 29, 2005 at 8:06 pm |
You make several specious arguments but their is no point in taking you to task for your circular reasoning “recruiter” and “friend of recruiter” My problem with your ilk lies not in who you recruit, or your war on terror (or how you can legitimately wage war on on an inanimate thing such as “terror” is beyond me) But the misrepresentations, lies and falsehoods you propogate in order to fill your ranks, force, yes force, soldiers to continue to serve past their enlistment dates and in jobs they did not enlist to do by promising them a job then once you have them making them go into a hard to fill job in effect rewriting their contract. I also have a problem with establishing permanent basing in Iraq to continue our crusade to transform the Muslim/Islamic worlds to conform to our christian ideals. But then again I doubt you can understand how anyone can take such a position since you consider any such objection to be an act of treason and to have any opinion different than yours to be worthy of nothing more than ridicule and and left handed comments without ever acknowledging the points.
October 29, 2005 at 9:53 pm |
lakers,
You post “(or how you can legitimately wage war on on an inanimate thing such as “terror” is beyond me)”
I guess once TERROR smacks you in the face then maybe you will be able to answer that question.
Second thing is…WE, the soldiers, recruiters, etc…do not wage war…it is your elected government.
ArmySoldier
I might need to bookmark this page…IRR made a nice comment.
October 30, 2005 at 7:49 am |
Just a comment-
The government that waged this illegal war was NOT elected. It was ruled in by the Supreme Court (who was not elected by the American public) in 2000. As a matter of fact (irrelevant as it may be at this point) our President, or commander-in-chief of the military, lost both elections (2000 & 2004) by popular vote. The first time, the public was shocked, the second time the media ignored it.
Speaking of irrelevancy, this war has only increased “terror” in it’s many forms all around the world. It is logistically impossible for war to end (or reduce) acts of terrorism.
Back to the subject at hand, these grannies broke the law (civil disobedience), but can anyone equate them with terrorists (without taking a major vacation from reality)?
Can anyone rationally explain what about these ladies’ behaviour is considered so deplorable? (I for one applaud them, but this is beside the point.)
October 30, 2005 at 9:04 am |
Since when has blocking a locked door been considered illegal? I’d bet you anything, if the door was unlocked these ladies would not have sat down to wait for the recruiters inside to unlock it.
If there had been a fire or other emergency that required the building evacuated, I’d also bet anything that the ladies would have not continued to block the door.
I’d like to know what charge these ladies were arrested for, and whether they were sentenced, if indeed they were found to be in violation of any law.
October 30, 2005 at 11:16 am |
Argon,
your point is moot…parking in a fire lane is illegal too.
October 30, 2005 at 5:37 pm |
I think the point was missed –
Parking in a fire lane is clearly illegal. Blocking a fire exit is clearly illegal. But sitting in front of a locked door that is not a fire exit? If it was a fire exit, the person who locked it was in larger violation of fire safety code than the grannies. Also this article does not mention if they were asked to move before being arrested.
What I wonder is why the recruiter inside got so nervous about a few old women who tried to enlist? They could have filled their quota for the month in that one day (although I do understand that they were technically too old by recruitment rules, but all they would have had to do was explain that)! I mean, why did these recruiters get so nervous they felt the need to lock their own door during business hours and call the cops?
At the risk of repeating myself, if the door was unlocked these ladies would not have sat down to wait for the recruiters inside to unlock it. I’d like to know what charge these ladies were arrested for, and whether they were sentenced, if indeed they were found to be in violation of any law.
October 30, 2005 at 6:53 pm |
Argon,
Please reference my original comment on this thread. The “Raging Grannies” that I have met, especially the ones at the 9/24/05 march in Washington were not nice people. They were vulgar, crass and disrespectful. Their language alone rivalled the crudeness of anything I heard during four years in the Active Army.
Don’t play dumb – these women weren’t going to simply “try to enlist.” They were conducting agitprop and would have done something truly “over the top” if they got inside. These women, while elderly, are career activists and many have supported socialist and communist causes for decades.
They deserved to be locked up (and I’m against the war). As a fair-minded New Yorker with family and friends in the NYPD, I have a very low tolerance for the Raging Grannies, Rev. Billy and Critical Mass. It seems as if their goal is to agitate the police rather than get any type of message across. I was a regular Rev. Billy supporter/attendee until he pushed a cop on Stop Shopping day 2003 – from then on he’s been just another shithead in my eyes. Ditto for Critical Mass (suburban bred scenesters looking to make trouble – they delusionally believe that NYPD Rookies making $31K a year desire nothing more than to screw with bicyclists).
October 30, 2005 at 7:25 pm |
Grandmothers Against The War is a seperate organization than Raging Grannies, although apparently they do work together occasionally.
I still have my doubts that the person who locked the door was charged with threatening public safety.
Nothing wrong with “agitprop,” as it is one key on the ring that will continue to open the doors of progress. It is a part of human culture and will be with us always. If it weren’t for the agitprop of the “founding fathers,” we’d all be sipping tea and playing cricket.
Completely off topic, but I support Critical Mass, an important tool to build hope for a better world.
October 30, 2005 at 7:33 pm |
Argon,
There is no right to enter a federal facility (ie. a Recruiting Station) – so right there, your argument is a nonstarter.
I’ll concede that it’s different names of the groups, but the underlying similarity of membership still stands. These career activists don’t have any grandchildren serving and are relying on misguided emotion by an uninformed public – these are not “kindly grandmas.” I would probably bet that they are political/ideological “outliers” to the majority of Americans.
Critical Mass, well we’ll have to agree to disagree. Went to their August ride from Union Square with my brother – even went to the after party on Stanton St. My “shotgun” impression was a lot of youth of privilege who now pretend they are “native New Yorkers.” They talked a lot of shit before the ride, but ran like cowards at the first sight of the cops. I was really amazed at how they believed the police were conspiring to mess with them – pathetic.
I agree with the aims they purport to advocate, but I find many members to be unsavory and take issue with their behavior while riding.
October 31, 2005 at 1:40 am |
You’re right, but I didn’t say anything about whether they had a right to enter or not. I don’t see where you’re going with that seemingly random non-point.
October 31, 2005 at 3:21 pm |
Wow, go out of town for a weekend and everybody posts! Crazy
Argon,
Loitering is against the law. Lets see what Merriam-Webster’s Dictonary has to say about loitering:
Main Entry: loi·ter
Pronunciation: ‘loi-t&r
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: Middle English
1 : to delay an activity with aimless idle stops and pauses : DAWDLE
2 a : to remain in an area for no obvious reason : HANG AROUND b : to lag behind
synonym see DELAY
– loiter noun
– loi·ter·er /-t&r-&r/ noun
So lets see – they were trying to delay an activity – recruiting – with aimless idle stops and pauses.
or
They were remaining in an area for no obvious reason.
I think both fit.
You might argue that they were remaining in that area for an obvious reason – but they didn’t have a PERMIT! I am not from, nor have I ever been to NYC but I’d imagine that they make loitering against the law to keep the busy sidewalks clear for people to walk. It’s a public safety thing.
You asked why the recruiters locked the door? Probably because they should have to put up with such obvious bull shit. They’re paid BY THE TAX PAYERS to do a job. Dealing with the “Raging Grannies” probably isn’t the most productive thing in the world. They locked the door to get some frickin’ work done!
-Recruiter
November 1, 2005 at 6:04 am |
Forget it. You are an idiot, MR. I didn’t come here to discuss your personal issues against the pacifists, I thought (foolishly) that there might be intelligent dialogue exchanged here.
Again, peace be with you and may your recruits all return alive and intact (in both body and in spirit).
BTW, we are all the same person here, so get a brain lift, or accept that your views are (and will remain) unpopular (not to say that popularity has any value in itself), no matter the situation. Especially a situation regarding this unjust and illegal war. I hope you, as a MR, didn’t come to “Counter Recruitment,” expecting to change any minds, or even be able to make a coherant argument.
Yes, by “we are all the same person,” I mean I am nokey, hoowah, argon, jude, lockstock, jane, patriot, w. smith, standby… nobody who reads your shit buys it (and for those who do, I would sincerely hope they have a higher IQ than yourself), so welcome to the America you hate and seek to destroy.
Why don’t you go hunt down those goddamn terrorists (oh yeah, you are a bigger terrorist (honestly!) than Saddam or Osama) and get killed in Iraq instead of trying to get others killed for the job you signed up for? You’d do your beloved nation a great favor.
Keep in mind, terrorist attacks have QUINTUPLED worldwide since the beginning of the March 2003 invasion of Iraq by the US. And that’s based on biased Pentagon standards. I’d guess it’s more like dectupled (is that a word?) if one takes into account the US troops damage and pointless attacks on civilians. I may be foolish myself to presume that you are aware that the US is responsible for over 95% of the civilian deaths in Iraq since the beginning of the invasion?
I came here to have an honest open discussion with intelligent people, not be shouted down by those who have been brainwiped by ignorant nationalist propaganda. And yes I know you’ll disagree that that is the case, but it is because you’ve been (apparently)… brainwiped by ignorant nationalist propaganda.
Say what you will. It’s clearly a product of ignorance, and has no value. Hope you outgrow your infantile dreams of war being “glorious.”
-Over And Out-
November 1, 2005 at 1:12 pm |
And the point of that post was????
November 4, 2005 at 3:07 pm |
Wow! You really got me……
I can’t believe how cool you are! REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POSTS AS A DIFFERENT PERSON! That is the SMARTEST thing I’ve ever heard of!!!
I honestly am out of words on what to say to you. Delusional is about the only word that comes to mind.
“…we are all the same person here, so get a brain lift, or accept that your views are (and will remain) unpopular (not to say that popularity has any value in itself), no matter the situation.”
Wow – you really proved to me how unpopular my views are BY BEING THE ONLY PERSON TO REPLY TO THEM! Oh, wait, you had to make it look convincing so you posted as SEVERAL different people. BUT YOU ADMITTED TO IT! Yep, I’m SO unpopular because you and your multiple personalities don’t like me. Fact of the matter about 50% of the public happen to agree with me.
I am greatly offended that you called me a “terrorist” and compared me to evil war criminals Saddam or UBL. How you are making those connections is far beyond me.
You act as though you’re “for the troops” yet you wish death apon me. Did I cross you somehow? I THOUGHT we were just having a conversation – but suddenly you’re hoping I’m dead. Weird.
Yes, terrorist attacks have risen world wide. But 99% of them are against soldiers. Those soldiers have sworn their lives to protect PEOPLE LIKE YOU! We would rather die a thousand times in Iraq than let JUST ONE INNOCENT AMERICAN CIVILIAN DIE in a terrorist attack on our soil. Your arguement about the rise in terror attacks is pointless…….
According to Iraq Body Count – U.S. is NOT responsible for 95% of the civilian casualties. Here’s an interesting fact for you: Saddam is responsible for an estimated 130,000 civilian deaths PER YEAR during his time in power. Since U.S. intervention only about 30,000 civilians have died in TWO AND A HALF YEARS. So that’s 10,000 civilians to die per year in Iraq. So that means, because we ousted Saddam the United States saves 100,000 people from DEATH every YEAR. So far we have saved 250,000 people from dying in Iraq! But you say it’s a bad thing because people are dying. Far more lives have been saved than lost…..
We were having an intelligent discussion – until you lashed out on me and wished I would die. Did you forget to take your meds today?
ArmySoldier, you’re right there was no point to that post.
November 21, 2005 at 8:16 pm |
LOL
The military is not all it’s cracked up to be. Respect the rank not the person is a joke. The Army’s 7 army values are not even followed by senior enlisted or officers. The war in Iraq is a joke and a waste of time and lives. We are making new enemies. That is not our country we are there for no good reason. You can’t stop terrorism by causeing more terror.
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